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pheonix1t@gmail.com
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:50 am Post subject: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
Compared to japanese cars, the tires (and brakes) would be an
acceptable item to be replaced but not the rest!
So, it seems I need to invest about $5-6k every 50k miles (which is A
LOT! compared to other cars - like japanese or american).
So, since my extended warranty ends at 100k, would it be considered
insane to keep this thing?
I'm thinking to sell it ASAP because I know those repairs are coming
and the electrical system hasn't given trouble - YET! This is
something else ALL german cars are now famous for!
Has anyone else seen these things and is anyone else disappointed by
the poor quality of these cars now? My independent mechanic says they
don't build them like they used to. Mercedes are even worse.
I'm thinking of a Honda/Toyota or Lexus. BMW should seriously
consider that RELIABILITY is also a luxury!!
Thanks,
Oskar |
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Jeff Strickland
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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I drove an E36 for close to 250k miles and it was fine. I replaced it with
another E36 that currently shows 130k miles, and it is fine. My kid drives
an E46 with more miles than my car, and it is fine.
Bring that piece of crap to my house and dump it off, I'll take care of it
for you.
<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
Compared to japanese cars, the tires (and brakes) would be an
acceptable item to be replaced but not the rest!
So, it seems I need to invest about $5-6k every 50k miles (which is A
LOT! compared to other cars - like japanese or american).
So, since my extended warranty ends at 100k, would it be considered
insane to keep this thing?
I'm thinking to sell it ASAP because I know those repairs are coming
and the electrical system hasn't given trouble - YET! This is
something else ALL german cars are now famous for!
Has anyone else seen these things and is anyone else disappointed by
the poor quality of these cars now? My independent mechanic says they
don't build them like they used to. Mercedes are even worse.
I'm thinking of a Honda/Toyota or Lexus. BMW should seriously
consider that RELIABILITY is also a luxury!!
Thanks,
Oskar |
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Floyd Rogers
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote
| Quote: |
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
|
That statement is simply not true. IME, US-built (well, Canada, but
that's another discussion) have been far less reliable than my BMWs.
Our Toyota cars (and truck) cost just as much to maintain as our BMWs.
| Quote: |
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
|
Our '91 525i was just retired due to a wreck, at 200K miles. Original
engine still getting 30+ mpg, original CLUTCH - try that on an American
car. My '01 330xi has had it's cooling system replaced (as you note,
they're weak) and has 125K miles on it. Nothing else has gone wrong.
FloydR |
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admin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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pheonix1t@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I'm thinking of a Honda/Toyota or Lexus. BMW should seriously
consider that RELIABILITY is also a luxury!!
Thanks,
Oskar
|
Oskar,
That sounds like an excellent idea. And next time I talk to BMW I'll
remind them that they lost you to the used Japanese market. I bet that
will get their knickers in a bunch. |
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Alan B. Mac Farlane
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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in article 67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com,
pheonix1t@gmail.com at pheonix1t@gmail.com wrote on 6/30/08 7:50 PM:
| Quote: |
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable
|
My 2000 528i has 176K on it ... and I had to change the water pump about a
year ago ... it only lasted 6 months for the next oil change ... and I got a
warrenty change out of it ... had to pay for the labor.
If you look at the VIN number and download the history of the car (as it has
only had BMW trained mechanics working on it as my bark yard mechanic days
are over with this machine) ... there were two items that had to be replaced
out of the factory within 50K miles or so. The other stuff is just fine,
even the fuel pump (electric) is working great to my ears and experience.
I have recently had a Computer gremlin show up with transient electrical
faults ... and the car science says that it has to be the ignition switch
that is going out .. or my car was sabotaged in the wire loom by the last
mechanice who worked the car ... as I have a big mouth about illegal aleins
geting their Ramon Salcido on and doing a Selena to people here in the USA.
As for the Japanese ... go over to Japan, they all drive Mercedes and BMWs
for durability and gas mileage.
I say get an electric car like a ZAP ... and use that short hauls around
town and the home .. use the gas for long trips.
Plan two ... get bio-diesel ... the Europeans again are the best in regards
to autos.
When I fill up my Ford 3/4 ton ... it is $100 for the biodiesel .. but ALL
that money stays in the USA. So far Bubble Boy our Idiot in Charge has not
sold off the biodiesel to the Grand Poohbah of DuBuy. Also 1 acre of algee
.... will make 170,000 miles of biodiesel fuel or so I hear.
sumbuddie on da watchtower
:) |
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Dave Plowman (News)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:48 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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In article
<67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>,
pheonix1t@gmail.com <pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
|
Radiator failure is common on the V-8s, not on the 6 cylinder models.
Alternator failure isn't common on either. The suspension bush live
depends on many things. Idler pulley life the same.
| Quote: |
Compared to japanese cars, the tires (and brakes) would be an
acceptable item to be replaced but not the rest!
|
Well, I've pointed out that not all BMWs are the same and it's doubly so
with Japanese cars. They certainly aren't all perfect.
| Quote: |
So, it seems I need to invest about $5-6k every 50k miles (which is A
LOT! compared to other cars - like japanese or american).
So, since my extended warranty ends at 100k, would it be considered
insane to keep this thing?
|
You could extend the warranty?
| Quote: |
I'm thinking to sell it ASAP because I know those repairs are coming
and the electrical system hasn't given trouble - YET! This is
something else ALL german cars are now famous for!
|
There you go again...
| Quote: |
Has anyone else seen these things and is anyone else disappointed by
the poor quality of these cars now? My independent mechanic says they
don't build them like they used to. Mercedes are even worse.
|
And your mechanic knows everything about every car?
| Quote: |
I'm thinking of a Honda/Toyota or Lexus. BMW should seriously
consider that RELIABILITY is also a luxury!!
|
Get yourself a nice Honda. You and all those blue rinses can't be wrong.
--
*I was once a millionaire but my mom gave away my baseball cards
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
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John Carrier
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:15 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
|
Radiator failure in the 60-90K range is not uncommon on the V-8's. Much
less so on the I-6's. The water pump is a weakness and probably should be
replaced as a preventive measure prior to 90K (Mike Miller would say 60).
Never heard of an alternator going bad so early.
Pulley failures are rare below 100K.
The E39's have their issues. The cooling system (radiator, water pump) are
a weakness, particularly in the V-8's. The instrument cluster and radio MID
can loose pixels. The sunroof tilt arms are weak. And of course, there are
those darn cupholders.
The preventive maintenance on these cars is fairly expensive, especially if
you ignore factory recommendations (lifetime fill on differential, manual
trans, power steering ... 100K on auto trans) and maintain it like it was
going to last 250,000 miles.
Other occasional issues arise in the door vapor seals (if the sealant that
holds them to the door panel loses its grip, you've got damp footwells).
The leather is surface dyed and shows wear prematurely. The I-6's had a
rash of bad coils that were replaced under recall/warranty.
By comparison, you can buy a Japanese transportation appliance from
Toyota/Honda (or their upscale Lexus/Acura) and do little but change fluids
and various filters for over 100K.
Brakes and tires last, or don't last, as a function of driving style. You
can run through a set of PS2's in about 15K in a Corolla, too.
If you enjoy driving, the E39 is about the finest all-round sedan you can
own. Great vehicle dynamics, comfort and luxury. If you're stuck in
gridlock on the 91 Freeway, an Accord with a good sound system might make
more sense.
R / John |
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pheonix1t@gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
|
|
On Jul 1, 5:15 pm, "John Carrier" <j...@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
pheoni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
Radiator failure in the 60-90K range is not uncommon on the V-8's. Much
less so on the I-6's. The water pump is a weakness and probably should be
replaced as a preventive measure prior to 90K (Mike Miller would say 60).
Never heard of an alternator going bad so early.
Pulley failures are rare below 100K.
The E39's have their issues. The cooling system (radiator, water pump) are
a weakness, particularly in the V-8's. The instrument cluster and radio MID
can loose pixels. The sunroof tilt arms are weak. And of course, there are
those darn cupholders.
The preventive maintenance on these cars is fairly expensive, especially if
you ignore factory recommendations (lifetime fill on differential, manual
trans, power steering ... 100K on auto trans) and maintain it like it was
going to last 250,000 miles.
Other occasional issues arise in the door vapor seals (if the sealant that
holds them to the door panel loses its grip, you've got damp footwells).
The leather is surface dyed and shows wear prematurely. The I-6's had a
rash of bad coils that were replaced under recall/warranty.
By comparison, you can buy a Japanese transportation appliance from
Toyota/Honda (or their upscale Lexus/Acura) and do little but change fluids
and various filters for over 100K.
Brakes and tires last, or don't last, as a function of driving style. You
can run through a set of PS2's in about 15K in a Corolla, too.
If you enjoy driving, the E39 is about the finest all-round sedan you can
own. Great vehicle dynamics, comfort and luxury. If you're stuck in
gridlock on the 91 Freeway, an Accord with a good sound system might make
more sense.
R / John
|
Hi John,
Since you seem to be the only one who didn't get all emotional with a
knee-jerk response saying bmw is the best I think you're the most
reasonable person here!
I agree with you regarding the part about enjoying driving. In that
regard the bmw is much better than the others. I'm just surprised at
how much higher the costs are to maintain the joy! I guess these are
cars are a lot like some women I'm sure we've all dealt with, their
just high maintenance! (some guys like high maintenance women, some
enjoy them until they complain too much and move on.)
I like to stick to facts.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.consumerreports.org - I'm a member here so I can see the
reports, I can't paste here since they use graphics. But if you look
at luxury cars, 8 of the top 10 most reliable luxury cars are
Japanese! Audi and Lincoln are the other 2. Mercedes and BMW are in
the poor catagory!
These FACTS along with my experience with the e39 is how I'm coming up
with the items I'm discussing. I'm not being emotional and zealous.
I just want to see what everyone else thinks in regards to this. I
forgot to mention the door seals also went bad (dealer wanted $300 per
door to fix the seals!).
Things like door seals should NOT be an item you need to change every
60k miles! Neither should radiators, alternators, pulleys and
suspension bushings!
At 100k I'll accept it if the car was driven hard or it's in harsh
climate (cold, snow, salt, etc).
That's all I'm saying. Please don't get emotional - use facts :)
Oskar |
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Jeff Strickland
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
|
|
<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:281fffb8-4731-4b35-aa5a-4efd39d36268@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 1, 5:15 pm, "John Carrier" <j...@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
pheoni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67c21a22-581f-48ce-b77b-7715b64e0654@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
hello,
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
My car has about 65k miles and it's gotten the radiator replaced
(after research I saw this is a common problem with these cars), new
alternator and pulleys that go with it (also same as radiator), new
suspension bushings front and rear (also same as radiator), and a set
of new tires.
Radiator failure in the 60-90K range is not uncommon on the V-8's. Much
less so on the I-6's. The water pump is a weakness and probably should be
replaced as a preventive measure prior to 90K (Mike Miller would say 60).
Never heard of an alternator going bad so early.
Pulley failures are rare below 100K.
The E39's have their issues. The cooling system (radiator, water pump) are
a weakness, particularly in the V-8's. The instrument cluster and radio
MID
can loose pixels. The sunroof tilt arms are weak. And of course, there are
those darn cupholders.
The preventive maintenance on these cars is fairly expensive, especially
if
you ignore factory recommendations (lifetime fill on differential, manual
trans, power steering ... 100K on auto trans) and maintain it like it was
going to last 250,000 miles.
Other occasional issues arise in the door vapor seals (if the sealant that
holds them to the door panel loses its grip, you've got damp footwells).
The leather is surface dyed and shows wear prematurely. The I-6's had a
rash of bad coils that were replaced under recall/warranty.
By comparison, you can buy a Japanese transportation appliance from
Toyota/Honda (or their upscale Lexus/Acura) and do little but change
fluids
and various filters for over 100K.
Brakes and tires last, or don't last, as a function of driving style. You
can run through a set of PS2's in about 15K in a Corolla, too.
If you enjoy driving, the E39 is about the finest all-round sedan you can
own. Great vehicle dynamics, comfort and luxury. If you're stuck in
gridlock on the 91 Freeway, an Accord with a good sound system might make
more sense.
R / John
|
Hi John,
Since you seem to be the only one who didn't get all emotional with a
knee-jerk response saying bmw is the best I think you're the most
reasonable person here!
I agree with you regarding the part about enjoying driving. In that
regard the bmw is much better than the others. I'm just surprised at
how much higher the costs are to maintain the joy! I guess these are
cars are a lot like some women I'm sure we've all dealt with, their
just high maintenance! (some guys like high maintenance women, some
enjoy them until they complain too much and move on.)
<JS>
I put 150k miles on a '94 3 Series that I bought in '00 with 100k on the
clock.
The car was totalled against the side of some sort of Buick that turned in
front of me entering the Old Folks Neighborhood in my town. I replaced that
car with another '94 3 Series convertible, but do not pile on the miles
anymore. So, for the sake of discussion, in 8 years I have logged
approximately 200k miles combined on two different cars. I have spent about
$2000 on normal repairs, clutch, brakes, and odds-n-ends. On the first car,
I did a bonehead move that caused an expensive repair, but that was only
$2500 or so. So, $4500 in 200k miles is $0.0225 per mile, or about $565.00
per year, or under $50 per month. Take out the repair from the bonehead move
on my part, and the car paid me to drive it. I have never in 45 years of
driving had a car that cost less to own. And I bought my BMWs as a Used Car,
and have no clue what happened to them before I bought them.
Go buy a Honda if you want, but don't do it because your BMW costs to much.
</JS>
I like to stick to facts.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.consumerreports.org - I'm a member here so I can see the
reports, I can't paste here since they use graphics. But if you look
at luxury cars, 8 of the top 10 most reliable luxury cars are
Japanese! Audi and Lincoln are the other 2. Mercedes and BMW are in
the poor catagory!
These FACTS along with my experience with the e39 is how I'm coming up
with the items I'm discussing. I'm not being emotional and zealous.
I just want to see what everyone else thinks in regards to this. I
forgot to mention the door seals also went bad (dealer wanted $300 per
door to fix the seals!).
Things like door seals should NOT be an item you need to change every
60k miles! Neither should radiators, alternators, pulleys and
suspension bushings!
At 100k I'll accept it if the car was driven hard or it's in harsh
climate (cold, snow, salt, etc).
That's all I'm saying. Please don't get emotional - use facts :)
Oskar |
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Floyd Rogers
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
|
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<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote
| Quote: |
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
I like to stick to facts.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.consumerreports.org - I'm a member here so I can see the
reports, I can't paste here since they use graphics. But if you look
at luxury cars, 8 of the top 10 most reliable luxury cars are
Japanese! Audi and Lincoln are the other 2. Mercedes and BMW are in
the poor catagory!
These FACTS along with my experience with the e39 is how I'm coming up
with the items I'm discussing. I'm not being emotional and zealous.
|
There are a couple of things wrong with these statements.
First, you say: "I've learned from experience..." That's not a FACT,
nor is it valid to draw any conclusions from it. It is anecdotal evidence
and immediately suspect (as are all the anecdotes related by we
other posters.) You can't have it both ways: you say you believe
in facts, but then try to elevate non-evidence to that status. Can't do it.
The other problems are your citations. Let's take the jdpower first.
The study in that citation is for problems AT THE END OF THREE
YEARS. Because correlation and causation aren't the same things,
you *CANNOT* say that BMWs are worse *OVER THE LIFE OF
THE CAR* than the other manufacturers'. It's probably true that
the cars with fewer defects over three years may be better built, but
that says almost *NOTHING* about what will happen in the future.
There have been many discussions about consumer reports and
their rankings. I'm not going to repeat them other to say: Google
for them, and to note that the major argument about their validity
is that they don't *COMPLETELY* report *ALL* problems, since
CR doesn't actually go out and poll *ALL* owners, only the owners
that subscribe to CR. Because of that singular fact, their statistics
are immediately suspect.
FloydR |
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pheonix1t@gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
|
|
On Jul 2, 1:43 am, "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
pheoni...@gmail.com> wrote
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
I like to stick to facts.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.consumerreports.org- I'm a member here so I can see the
reports, I can't paste here since they use graphics. But if you look
at luxury cars, 8 of the top 10 most reliable luxury cars are
Japanese! Audi and Lincoln are the other 2. Mercedes and BMW are in
the poor catagory!
These FACTS along with my experience with the e39 is how I'm coming up
with the items I'm discussing. I'm not being emotional and zealous.
There are a couple of things wrong with these statements.
First, you say: "I've learned from experience..." That's not a FACT,
nor is it valid to draw any conclusions from it. It is anecdotal evidence
and immediately suspect (as are all the anecdotes related by we
other posters.) You can't have it both ways: you say you believe
in facts, but then try to elevate non-evidence to that status. Can't do it.
The other problems are your citations. Let's take the jdpower first.
The study in that citation is for problems AT THE END OF THREE
YEARS. Because correlation and causation aren't the same things,
you *CANNOT* say that BMWs are worse *OVER THE LIFE OF
THE CAR* than the other manufacturers'. It's probably true that
the cars with fewer defects over three years may be better built, but
that says almost *NOTHING* about what will happen in the future.
There have been many discussions about consumer reports and
their rankings. I'm not going to repeat them other to say: Google
for them, and to note that the major argument about their validity
is that they don't *COMPLETELY* report *ALL* problems, since
CR doesn't actually go out and poll *ALL* owners, only the owners
that subscribe to CR. Because of that singular fact, their statistics
are immediately suspect.
FloydR
|
Hi Floyd,
Please correct me if I'm wrong but your logic is as follows:
car has poor reliability for 1st 3 years of ownership, this DOESN'T
mean that car will continue to be unreliable.
Is this correct?
That makes absolutely no sense!!
Who in their right mind buys anything that gets all sorts of problems
in the 1st 3 years of ownership and then tells themself, it's only the
1st 3 years of ownership - the future will be better!
Older bmw's were built better, newer ones are the problem. Also, FYI
the consumer reports reliability reports go back 10 years!! Is 10
years of data enough to draw a conclusion on whether or not the model
car you're looking at is reliable?
This is where bmw's and most german cars show their ugly side - lots
of problems.
Also, JD Powers reports go back about 12 years. Lexus is #1 for 12
years in a row if I recall correctly.
Oskar |
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Florida NRA SW
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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<pheonix1t@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5c8510ac-cc3b-498c-b0be-6ef7da2c6cc2@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 2, 1:43 am, "Floyd Rogers" <fbloogy...@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
pheoni...@gmail.com> wrote
I have a question regarding reliability. I've learned from experience
that certain parts in BMW cars just aren't as reliable as japanese or
even some american cars.
I like to stick to facts.
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand
http://www.consumerreports.org- I'm a member here so I can see the
reports, I can't paste here since they use graphics. But if you look
at luxury cars, 8 of the top 10 most reliable luxury cars are
Japanese! Audi and Lincoln are the other 2. Mercedes and BMW are in
the poor catagory!
These FACTS along with my experience with the e39 is how I'm coming up
with the items I'm discussing. I'm not being emotional and zealous.
There are a couple of things wrong with these statements.
First, you say: "I've learned from experience..." That's not a FACT,
nor is it valid to draw any conclusions from it. It is anecdotal evidence
and immediately suspect (as are all the anecdotes related by we
other posters.) You can't have it both ways: you say you believe
in facts, but then try to elevate non-evidence to that status. Can't do
it.
The other problems are your citations. Let's take the jdpower first.
The study in that citation is for problems AT THE END OF THREE
YEARS. Because correlation and causation aren't the same things,
you *CANNOT* say that BMWs are worse *OVER THE LIFE OF
THE CAR* than the other manufacturers'. It's probably true that
the cars with fewer defects over three years may be better built, but
that says almost *NOTHING* about what will happen in the future.
There have been many discussions about consumer reports and
their rankings. I'm not going to repeat them other to say: Google
for them, and to note that the major argument about their validity
is that they don't *COMPLETELY* report *ALL* problems, since
CR doesn't actually go out and poll *ALL* owners, only the owners
that subscribe to CR. Because of that singular fact, their statistics
are immediately suspect.
FloydR
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Hi Floyd,
Please correct me if I'm wrong but your logic is as follows:
car has poor reliability for 1st 3 years of ownership, this DOESN'T
mean that car will continue to be unreliable.
Is this correct?
That makes absolutely no sense!!
Who in their right mind buys anything that gets all sorts of problems
in the 1st 3 years of ownership and then tells themself, it's only the
1st 3 years of ownership - the future will be better!
Older bmw's were built better, newer ones are the problem. Also, FYI
the consumer reports reliability reports go back 10 years!! Is 10
years of data enough to draw a conclusion on whether or not the model
car you're looking at is reliable?
This is where bmw's and most german cars show their ugly side - lots
of problems.
Also, JD Powers reports go back about 12 years. Lexus is #1 for 12
years in a row if I recall correctly.
Oskar
Sorry for being off topic. I noticed that some call their cars "E39", etc.
In the US, I haven't seen this. Is there some info or a chart that shows how
the European and US model names/numbers relate? Many thanks in advance. |
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Pete
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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"Florida NRA SW" wrote
| Quote: |
Sorry for being off topic. I noticed that some call their cars "E39",
etc.
In the US, I haven't seen this. Is there some info or a chart that
shows how
the European and US model names/numbers relate? Many thanks in
advance.
|
The nomenclature is used in the US as well Here's your chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bmw
Go to the bottom of the page and expand the "BMW road car timelines"
(click on [show] on the right).
Cheers,
Pete |
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Pete
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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"John Carrier" wrote
| Quote: |
Radiator failure in the 60-90K range is not uncommon on the V-8's.
Much less so on the I-6's. The water pump is a weakness and probably
should be replaced as a preventive measure prior to 90K (Mike Miller
would say 60).
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The radiator is also a weakness as it is plastic. You can buy an
aftermarket radiator that is not plastic though that should last you a
bit longer.
Pete |
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Mike G
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: e39 2002, should I keep it? |
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"Florida NRA SW" <flrr77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:486c259d$0$18121$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...
| Quote: |
Sorry for being off topic. I noticed that some call their cars
"E39", etc.
In the US, I haven't seen this. Is there some info or a chart
that shows how
the European and US model names/numbers relate? Many thanks in
advance.
|
AFAIK the E number is the same for both US and european cars.
Basically it's BMW's model designation for different body designs
and series. The numbers following also usually refer to the
series and engine size.
Ie, all E39's are 5 series, and if followed by 5xx, the 5 is the
series and the xx refers to the size of it's engine, which may
not be it's actual size. The 523i actually has a 2.5 litre
engine.
Mike. (UK) |
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