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Ed
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 Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver |
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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thank ed... not!!
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http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm |
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Jerry
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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Unless our congress comes to its' senses and develops an energy plan instead
of simply fighting our oil development, I not only see huge price increases,
but shortages, rationing, many businesses going under, and the economy in
recession.
Jerry
"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
| Quote: |
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
|
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Ted Mittelstaedt
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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"Jerry" <nospam@???> wrote in message
news:483aacd9$0$5105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: |
Unless our congress comes to its' senses and develops an energy plan
instead
of simply fighting our oil development, I not only see huge price
increases,
but shortages, rationing, many businesses going under, and the economy in
recession.
|
Many energy plans have been developed. The problem is that actual
consumers of gas and oil have not bought off on any of them by changing
their buying habits.
Recent studies have shown that fueling a passenger car costs around 30%
of the total cost of owning it, and furthermore that fueling the same
vehicle with electricity (if it were an electric car) would cost about 1/3
of what fueling it with gasoline costs. And 50% of the US electric power is
coal-generated, and we have another century of coal left, long enough
to get a large number of wind and solar projects online. Even the battery
problem has been solved with the development of large Li-Ion batteries.
It's pretty clear that if the nation's passenger car fleet was switched over
to electric, the remaining part of the fleet that drives long-haul
(interstate
trucking, etc.) would be sustainable with biodiesel.
Hwever, the customers have yet to materialize for electric vehicles. It
was thought that once it was cheaper to fuel cars with electricity that
this would happen, but that time was passed years ago and it still has
not happened.
Your dealing with a large amount of social inertia. And stupidity.
The other problem is that sooner or later we will pull out of Iraq and
when we do, and that money drain ceases and the budget finally gets
balanced, the dollar will begin rising in relation to other countries
currencies, and the cost of oil and gas will fall again - not to the levels
it was, but maybe from $5 a gallon back to $3.50 a gallon - and the
gasoline proponents will then immediately run around telling people
that high gas prices were just a blip, there's still plenty of oil,
yadda yadda yadda, and it is going to take another 10 years for people
to finally see through that as well.
Ted |
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Jerry
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:17 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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I can't see the public not wanting a "good" electric car or a nat gas one.
The GM volt, I believe targeted for something like 2010 is to go 40 miles
with an overnight charge and then use gas. However, the current batteries
have a habit of catching fire. Anyway, if there exists good alternatives to
gasoline passenger cars, IMO these should be mandated and presented to the
public as ways to reduce our dependence on foreign oil - IMO if the plans
were good, the mandate would be accepted. Currently, it's getting difficult
to find a hybrid.
Jerry
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$j6jh1k$8gj1$1@news.ipinc.net...
| Quote: |
"Jerry" <nospam@???> wrote in message
news:483aacd9$0$5105$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
Unless our congress comes to its' senses and develops an energy plan
instead
of simply fighting our oil development, I not only see huge price
increases,
but shortages, rationing, many businesses going under, and the economy in
recession.
Many energy plans have been developed. The problem is that actual
consumers of gas and oil have not bought off on any of them by changing
their buying habits.
Recent studies have shown that fueling a passenger car costs around 30%
of the total cost of owning it, and furthermore that fueling the same
vehicle with electricity (if it were an electric car) would cost about 1/3
of what fueling it with gasoline costs. And 50% of the US electric power
is
coal-generated, and we have another century of coal left, long enough
to get a large number of wind and solar projects online. Even the battery
problem has been solved with the development of large Li-Ion batteries.
It's pretty clear that if the nation's passenger car fleet was switched
over
to electric, the remaining part of the fleet that drives long-haul
(interstate
trucking, etc.) would be sustainable with biodiesel.
Hwever, the customers have yet to materialize for electric vehicles. It
was thought that once it was cheaper to fuel cars with electricity that
this would happen, but that time was passed years ago and it still has
not happened.
Your dealing with a large amount of social inertia. And stupidity.
The other problem is that sooner or later we will pull out of Iraq and
when we do, and that money drain ceases and the budget finally gets
balanced, the dollar will begin rising in relation to other countries
currencies, and the cost of oil and gas will fall again - not to the
levels
it was, but maybe from $5 a gallon back to $3.50 a gallon - and the
gasoline proponents will then immediately run around telling people
that high gas prices were just a blip, there's still plenty of oil,
yadda yadda yadda, and it is going to take another 10 years for people
to finally see through that as well.
Ted
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FrediFizzx
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in
message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
| Quote: |
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
|
I'm not shocked yet and neither is most of America as holiday driving is
only expected to be reduced by 1%. Call me when it gets to $6/gal, then
I will be more concerned. But that is where it needs to go to
effectively reduce consumption.
Fred |
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Tim J.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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On Mon, 26 May 2008 10:00:15 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
<tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Recent studies have shown that fueling a passenger car costs around 30%
of the total cost of owning it, and furthermore that fueling the same
vehicle with electricity (if it were an electric car) would cost about 1/3
of what fueling it with gasoline costs. And 50% of the US electric power is
coal-generated, and we have another century of coal left, long enough
to get a large number of wind and solar projects online. Even the battery
problem has been solved with the development of large Li-Ion batteries.
It's pretty clear that if the nation's passenger car fleet was switched over
to electric, the remaining part of the fleet that drives long-haul
(interstate
trucking, etc.) would be sustainable with biodiesel.
Hwever, the customers have yet to materialize for electric vehicles. It
was thought that once it was cheaper to fuel cars with electricity that
this would happen, but that time was passed years ago and it still has
not happened.
Your dealing with a large amount of social inertia. And stupidity.
|
It's not "social" inertia or stupidity. Your figures do not take into
account the most expensive drawback to a mass changeover to electric
vehicles; the cost of purchasing those vehicles. That's more of an
economic inertia. |
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Jerry
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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I tend to agree and maybe even higher. I personally will use all I want
unless there is a shortage. Businesses will eventually pass these costs on
to the consumer or go out of business. This could result in the worst of
situations - failing economy and inflation. Meanwhile we are selling the
country to OPEC.
Jerry
"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a0avgF345pcbU1@mid.individual.net...
| Quote: |
"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in
message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
I'm not shocked yet and neither is most of America as holiday driving is
only expected to be reduced by 1%. Call me when it gets to $6/gal, then I
will be more concerned. But that is where it needs to go to effectively
reduce consumption.
Fred |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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It's interesting to see that only a couple years ago, the oil
companies were on television, in newspapers, and in courts demanded to
explain themselves and thier profits. this year, the focus is on the
consumer, and thier explanation of what else they are going to cut
back so that they will still be able to spend the same amount in the
car during the traveling season. that being said we have to ask a
couple questions:
- why are oil companies out of the media?
- can we really see consumers stop using thier cars?
- when oil/gas could find its price equilibrium? |
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Mike hunt
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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Actually from what I read over 50% of the crude we import comes from the
western hemisphere, not OPEC. A large portion of the balance, come from
the Brits
"Jerry" <nospam@???> wrote in message
news:483b1494$0$5724$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
| Quote: |
I tend to agree and maybe even higher. I personally will use all I want
unless there is a shortage. Businesses will eventually pass these costs on
to the consumer or go out of business. This could result in the worst of
situations - failing economy and inflation. Meanwhile we are selling the
country to OPEC.
Jerry
"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a0avgF345pcbU1@mid.individual.net...
"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in
message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
I'm not shocked yet and neither is most of America as holiday driving is
only expected to be reduced by 1%. Call me when it gets to $6/gal, then
I will be more concerned. But that is where it needs to go to
effectively reduce consumption.
Fred
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FrediFizzx
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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|
It doesn't matter where we get our oil from as OPEC still influences
global prices. If OPEC wasn't supplying other countries, then those
other countries would be buying from the sources the US buys from.
Countries tend to buy oil from closest sources to reduce shipping costs.
The US buys a lot of oil from Canada and Mexico. Mexican production is
declining.
Fred
"Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:i7ednXkCaqw_1aHVnZ2dnUVZ_gOdnZ2d@ptd.net...
| Quote: |
Actually from what I read over 50% of the crude we import comes from
the western hemisphere, not OPEC. A large portion of the balance,
come from the Brits
"Jerry" <nospam@???> wrote in message
news:483b1494$0$5724$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
I tend to agree and maybe even higher. I personally will use all I
want unless there is a shortage. Businesses will eventually pass
these costs on to the consumer or go out of business. This could
result in the worst of situations - failing economy and inflation.
Meanwhile we are selling the country to OPEC.
Jerry
"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a0avgF345pcbU1@mid.individual.net...
"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in
message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
I'm not shocked yet and neither is most of America as holiday
driving is only expected to be reduced by 1%. Call me when it gets
to $6/gal, then I will be more concerned. But that is where it
needs to go to effectively reduce consumption.
Fred
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HLS
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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"Tim J." <tj66821@usa.not> wrote in message
| Quote: |
It's not "social" inertia or stupidity. Your figures do not take into
account the most expensive drawback to a mass changeover to electric
vehicles; the cost of purchasing those vehicles. That's more of an
economic inertia.
|
It is not stupidity...our head would tell us to do better, but our head
in analized.
It is, to some extent, social inertia.
Every great trip starts with a single step.. My point is that there has been
no significant movement toward a liveable energy policy. As all of us have
pretty much agreed, people in the USA buy gas guzzlers because that is
what they want to buy, the expensives of owning such a beast have not been
perceived as being too great, and we really have no leadership toward, nor
feeling for, conservation.
It may take an whop up 'side the head to make Americans aware of the
bad side of energy dependence upon foreign nations. |
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Ads |
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Sponsor
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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Mike hunt wrote:
| Quote: |
Actually from what I read over 50% of the crude we import comes from the
western hemisphere, not OPEC. A large portion of the balance, come from
the Brits
|
Very little comes from the Brits. About 10 times as much petroleum comes
from Canada (from whom we import them most) than the UK. Our biggest
source of imports are Canada (2451 thousand barrels of petroleum per day
through march) ), Saudi Arabia (1556), Mexico (1329) Nigeria (1126) and
Venezuela (1146), UK (197). These countries account for most of our
imports.
Jeff
| Quote: |
"Jerry" <nospam@???> wrote in message
news:483b1494$0$5724$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
I tend to agree and maybe even higher. I personally will use all I want
unless there is a shortage. Businesses will eventually pass these costs on
to the consumer or go out of business. This could result in the worst of
situations - failing economy and inflation. Meanwhile we are selling the
country to OPEC.
Jerry
"FrediFizzx" <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a0avgF345pcbU1@mid.individual.net...
"Ed" <fritz@spamexpire-200805.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> wrote in
message
news:d06dc061f9a611e7e9a07ddf9a9bf844@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
"Judging from the futures markets, shock at the gas pump is
bound to get worse. Maybe much worse.
"Since the beginning of the year, benchmark oil and gasoline
futures on the New York Mercantile Exchange both have increased
by more than a third, but the average retail price of gasoline
in the U.S. has risen by 22%. That bodes ill for consumers..."
Wall Street Journal: http://easyurl.net/BendOver
I'm not shocked yet and neither is most of America as holiday driving is
only expected to be reduced by 1%. Call me when it gets to $6/gal, then
I will be more concerned. But that is where it needs to go to
effectively reduce consumption.
Fred
|
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Steve R.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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"HLS" <nospam@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:V2__j.2738$xZ.384@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
| Quote: |
"Tim J." <tj66821@usa.not> wrote in message
It's not "social" inertia or stupidity. Your figures do not take into
account the most expensive drawback to a mass changeover to electric
vehicles; the cost of purchasing those vehicles. That's more of an
economic inertia.
It is not stupidity...our head would tell us to do better, but our head
in analized.
It is, to some extent, social inertia.
Every great trip starts with a single step.. My point is that there has
been
no significant movement toward a liveable energy policy. As all of us
have
pretty much agreed, people in the USA buy gas guzzlers because that is
what they want to buy, the expensives of owning such a beast have not been
perceived as being too great, and we really have no leadership toward, nor
feeling for, conservation.
It may take an whop up 'side the head to make Americans aware of the
bad side of energy dependence upon foreign nations.
|
A lot of the Canadian oil comes from the Athabaska Tar Sands, and it's
bloody expensive to extract. The tar sands are only viable if prices are
high.
Steve R.
--
Reply address munged to bugger up spammers |
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Mike hunt
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: If $4/gallon gas is bad, just wait |
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Duh! The last time I looked Canada, Mexico and Venezuela were in the
western hemisphere. Double DUH the BRITS ARE the UK.
LOL.
"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ij0%j.3143$3f1.1896@trndny02...
| Quote: |
Mike hunt wrote:
Actually from what I read over 50% of the crude we import comes from the
western hemisphere, not OPEC. A large portion of the balance, come from
the Brits
Very little comes from the Brits. About 10 times as much petroleum comes
from Canada (from whom we import them most) than the UK. Our biggest
source of imports are Canada (2451 thousand barrels of petroleum per day
through march) ), Saudi Arabia (1556), Mexico (1329) Nigeria (1126) and
Venezuela (1146), UK (197). These countries account for most of our
imports.
Jeff
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